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CrushFearSynth
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree.
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Mishlai
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Oh god that's hilarious.


And horrifying.

http://www.davickservices.com/VotingMachineMakerBlames.htm

"But he blamed the vote tabulation problems on McAfee anti-virus software on computer servers."

Servers? SERVERS??!?

I'm imagining networked microsoft boxes counting votes here... and I just can't even say how wrong that is.

If you were going to do this at all - and I'm vehemently opposed to electronic vote counting without paper backup - you need to make it as bulletproof as possible, which means a few things imo:

1) Application specific hardware.
2) Application specific firmware that runs the entire machine.
3) No software. (Look ma, no viruses!)
4) No networking. Sorry, that just isn't safe. I'd be nervous even if we were running fiber that would only be used for this, and I don't think they're going to pay for that.
5) Excellent physical security - this includes people, procedures, and machine design.
6) Testing before and after the actual vote.
7) Paper trail trumps the chip if there's a count discrepancy.

Even with these measures in place, it's really only the paper trail that saves you.

1) It's damn easy to make a chip lie, and you can only find out what it's programming is by asking it. See the problem?
2) Networks are insecure. Even if it's dedicated and encrypted, the wrong insider can subvert that.
3) Testing is of very limited use because you can program the machine to subvert the vote while outsmarting the testing regimen. No test can duplicate the date & time, number of votes, method of entry, and spacing between votes that will be seen on voting day. Any or all of these factors can signal the machine that it is or isn't time to lie.
4) Observer's - which provide voting security now - are of almost no value because the deceit cannot be seen.

I even worry about the paper trail because I'm not sure how many people will actually look at their receipt to see if it correctly reflects the vote they entered.

The machine would at least have a chance to get caught lying if it were printing out false paper...

An enormous amount of money is thrown at elections, and it's my estimate that perverting an electronic voting machine is far cheaper than a television add. You just need to turn the right people.

We've become accustomed to using systems that are complicated beyond our own level of sophistication, and hackers have long exploited our ignorance (and our comfort with it). I really believe that this is a case where we just need to recognize that a simple, plainly visible process is superior.
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Trassin
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I found something cool today. Govtrack.us , a civil organization that tracks legislation in congress, now has rss feeds available for a wide range of the information that they update on their site. A few of the ones available are pretty interesting but the one I'm the most happy about allows me to track the actions of my specific representative. Things like how he votes on bills, what bills he submits, and speeches that he gives are tracked.

There's also one available to track bills related to specific issues.

Link


edit: Apparently so many people are searching for information on H.R. 3997 (700 billion bailout) that it crashed both govtrack.us and the House's official site.
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Mishlai
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the best "you should vote" video I've seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olpCyDA4kYA

I couldn't decide which line I liked more:

"You can literally register while you're pooping if you have a laptop."

or

"I'm gonna take my bra off under my shirt."
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chowda
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Call me an evil contrarian, but I'm 100% fine with people who don't pay attention staying away from the voting booth.
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Trassin
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chowda wrote:
Call me an evil contrarian, but I'm 100% fine with people who don't pay attention staying away from the voting booth.


I used to think everyone should vote but have since changed my mind. Now I think there should be more to it than just registering. How about a test or 2 years of military/volunteer service.


Funny video though.
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chowda
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trassin wrote:
chowda wrote:
Call me an evil contrarian, but I'm 100% fine with people who don't pay attention staying away from the voting booth.

I used to think everyone should vote but have since changed my mind. Now I think there should be more to it than just registering. How about a test or 2 years of military/volunteer service.

Nah, just a valid, current tax return or enrollment forms, etc...

If it's a felony to not file, and we don't let felons vote, then there you go.
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Loupy Lobo
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that there should be more to registering to vote than having a birth certificate and being able to sign your name.
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chowda
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loupy Lobo wrote:
I agree that there should be more to registering to vote than having a birth certificate and being able to sign your name.

Motor Voter was one of the tactics used to show George Bush was out of touch in 1992. It did, but he didn't need any help.

Bush said it would lead to fraud and that's what has happened.
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Trassin
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Internet Voting
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Trassin
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we just go back to paper ballots already: Link

Would it really be that hard to just give people a scantron sheet and a number two pencil, it seemed to work pretty well in high school?
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Mongolio
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trassin wrote:
How about a test or 2 years of military/volunteer service..


Starship Troopers, anyone?

I'm one of those that shouldn't (and consequently don't) vote. I'm not getting fully into the reasons, but 1/100,000,000 a say isn't enough for me.
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Jon Boy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm in Oregon and i have to vote by mail. that sucks big nut!
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Madhatte
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mail here too. I'd much rather hand my ballot to a live human.
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Mishlai
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NC has had early voting for over a week now. I went to the library yesterday, filled out my little scantron, and fed it to the counting machine.
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Mishlai
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/24/princeton-publishes-how-to-guide-for-hacking-sequoia-e-voting-ma/

What would it take, exactly, for people to care about this?
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You are the result of 4 billion years of evolutionary success.

Fucking act like it.

"The stars died so that you could be here today" - Lawrence Krauss

"The universe is huge and old, and rare things happen all the time." - Lawrence Krauss
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Trassin
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mishlai wrote:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/24/princeton-publishes-how-to-guide-for-hacking-sequoia-e-voting-ma/

What would it take, exactly, for people to care about this?


I think a lot of people care. I also think a lot of money goes from these companies into the pockets of politicians.
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"Raccoons oscillate at 50Hz in Europe." - FAWBOTS
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Ryken
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish Virginia had a law requiring time to vote, I have to leave home before the polls open to get to work on time, and have to skip class that night in order to make it back in time to vote. LINK
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CrushFearSynth
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with you on that. Virginia sucks. I hate it here.

Holy crap, I just noticed your altered title rank. Awesome.
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Ryken
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only wish I could argue it......damn it....
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