The Blue Elephant Brigade Forum Index The Blue Elephant Brigade
Games, Anime, Movies, Life
 
    FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Diablo III
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Blue Elephant Brigade Forum Index -> Games (General)
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Akuma
Brigadier Commando
Brigadier Commando


Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 2590
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
MMO's do not really give the same story based presentation that single player games do. Your actions don't actually affect the world


There's a ton of story progression in WoW. In one area, you help construct a base camp for the Argent Crusade, and the further you personally progress in quests, the more built up it becomes.

In another, you do a whole series of quests leading up to one major event, which afterwards changes not only the state of that area, but the state of your home cities and your leadership.

WoW uses technology called phasing, where as you progress through particular steps, the way you see the world around you is different from someone who has not participated in those quests. The story is very much alive in WoW.
_________________
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is the validity of them." -Abraham Lincoln
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
CrushFearSynth
Brigadier Survivor
Brigadier Survivor


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 9017
Location: Sterling, VA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's my whole point. You don't affect the world, you affect your playthrough of the world. I can do that in a single player game and not have to pay per month to do so. And someone in a faction is going to progress the story in a different way than someone in an opposing faction, which doesn't progress a world storyline, unless the faction quests are entirely separate and all possible outcomes can be considered to happen. In any case, I want a real Warcraft game, which I consider to be an RTS with heavy story elements.
_________________
"The cheese stands alone." - Madhatte
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chowda
Brigadier Commando
Brigadier Commando


Joined: 13 Aug 2008
Posts: 2631
Location: Rhode Island

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CrushFearSynth wrote:
In any case, I want a real Warcraft game, which I consider to be an RTS with heavy story elements.

From what I've heard, the first Starcraft II single player game may be the best ever.
_________________
"Doctor Wu, your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!" - Black Dynamite

"Don't like the anime so much....but this just looks....well....."holy shit awesome." Crush exhibiting his superb observational skills referring to this movie
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Akuma
Brigadier Commando
Brigadier Commando


Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 2590
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CrushFearSynth wrote:
That's my whole point. You don't affect the world, you affect your playthrough of the world. I can do that in a single player game and not have to pay per month to do so. And someone in a faction is going to progress the story in a different way than someone in an opposing faction, which doesn't progress a world storyline, unless the faction quests are entirely separate and all possible outcomes can be considered to happen. In any case, I want a real Warcraft game, which I consider to be an RTS with heavy story elements.


They meet up in the same way and lead to the same outcome, you just partake in it differently depending on your faction. Some things you do will directly affect the world for other people, like fighting to control certain areas, but overtime the world will also change for other people due to story and world progression itself.

In the next expansion, Cataclysm, Deathwing returns and causes a huge worldwide cataclysm that alters the geography of the entire planet. This is a permanant world change that will cause every current existing area to be forever different, changing all existing quests, areas, and whatnot.

When a new patch comes out it's thought that your actions from beating the previous raid bosses and such have progressed the story onward, and you see how if you took place in that.

I get what you're saying, it's not the exact same thing, but there is a ton of story progression to be had here, it's not just an endless grind of "Bring me the head of that random thing, I give you gold." I don't really care for another Warcraft RTS, because it works better as an RPG with all the fantasy element, at least in my opinion, which is likely why it took the direction it did. Warcraft III was halfway to being an RPG itself.
_________________
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is the validity of them." -Abraham Lincoln
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
chowda
Brigadier Commando
Brigadier Commando


Joined: 13 Aug 2008
Posts: 2631
Location: Rhode Island

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Akuma, I get what you are saying, but no one side will ever win the war in WoW. When you study history, you learn how the course of human existence changes, normally as the result of sides fighting until one wins. There will always be a stalemate in an MMORPG by design. In a RTS, you can have different outcomes based on the faction you play, but they usually only canonize one of them to move the story on to the next installment. They aren't going to make you work to achieve some sort of cosmetic world change in WoW, only to have you download the expansion and find out that epic feet you and your buddies achieved actually didn't happen and some halfling rubbed his bean bag all over your orc overlords and enslaved your momma.
_________________
"Doctor Wu, your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!" - Black Dynamite

"Don't like the anime so much....but this just looks....well....."holy shit awesome." Crush exhibiting his superb observational skills referring to this movie
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CrushFearSynth
Brigadier Survivor
Brigadier Survivor


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 9017
Location: Sterling, VA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not so in WC3, however. All factions led to the same outcome, as Akuma stated with WoW. I don't mind there being a Warcraft MMO, but I'd like to see the series to return to its roots. I don't see its fantasy elements as making it work better for one type of game or another. Or any element of any game. All elements can arguably work for all types of gameplay. It's just a preference thing. I could just as easily say Warcraft would work much better as a single player RPG experience. And I'd be just as wrong.
_________________
"The cheese stands alone." - Madhatte
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Akuma
Brigadier Commando
Brigadier Commando


Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 2590
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if it were just a written story I don't think the war between the alliance and the horde will ever end, because there is always something else far more pressing. The faction war will ignite in full force again in the next expansion, but I've never felt that it's just drawn out to never-ending because this is an MMO, it just feels like that's how it's supposed to be.

Even in WC3, the threat of the scourge was far more important than fighting against each other.

In any case I can't see them ever making another WC RTS game, but it doesn't bother me much. I'm really looking forward to SC2 after what was showcased at Blizzcon, it looks absolutely amazing. WoW, along with the warcraft novels, and the Warcraft movie are more than enough storytelling for me.
_________________
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is the validity of them." -Abraham Lincoln
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
CrushFearSynth
Brigadier Survivor
Brigadier Survivor


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 9017
Location: Sterling, VA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I can definitely see them making another WC RTS. They made SC2 after an eternity, I can't see them totally abandoning what got them where they are today.
_________________
"The cheese stands alone." - Madhatte
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mojobacca
Brigadier Commando
Brigadier Commando


Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2789

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WHEN they do, if it still contains hero units as per WC3, they could always have some service where you could import your favorite WoW character to the game as a hero unit.
_________________
Come join the fun! League of Legends is a MMOAG that is both free to get, but free to play!

Quote:
DEATHFORCE: There are certainly crazy things you can do with this game, you can generate a world that is 3 times the size of earth before it starts having errors, although I dont know how long it would take to generate a world that large anyways lol

TRASSIN: I'm guessing about 21 days? Assuming you take a break every 7th day or so.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TeflonJon
Brigadier Rookie
Brigadier Rookie


Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 1284

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be completely awesome.
_________________
You can figure it out Nate. Just pretend it's a tree!
- paraphrased from Chick!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Akuma
Brigadier Commando
Brigadier Commando


Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 2590
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd still be surprised to see it unless it followed a story that has already taken place. Otherwise you can't really fit into the warcraft universe because the WoW storyline would have to just skip over it, or something.

Maybe after WoW comes to an end they could do a present day progressing one, but before that, I don't think so.
_________________
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is the validity of them." -Abraham Lincoln
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
CrushFearSynth
Brigadier Survivor
Brigadier Survivor


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 9017
Location: Sterling, VA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if they did one, it would be entirely canonical, and I do not see how WoW would affect that in any way.
_________________
"The cheese stands alone." - Madhatte
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chowda
Brigadier Commando
Brigadier Commando


Joined: 13 Aug 2008
Posts: 2631
Location: Rhode Island

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Akuma wrote:
I'd still be surprised to see it unless it followed a story that has already taken place. Otherwise you can't really fit into the warcraft universe because the WoW storyline would have to just skip over it, or something.

Maybe after WoW comes to an end they could do a present day progressing one, but before that, I don't think so.

Let's get real here. Yes, Blizzard plans on doing Warcraft 4. In their timeframe, that means 5 years from now at the soonest. WoW is strong enough now to see a new expansion or two, but it makes since they would pigeon hole Warcraft 4 between the end of serious WoW support and Blizzard's next MMORPG.

So it would all work out if done that way.
_________________
"Doctor Wu, your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!" - Black Dynamite

"Don't like the anime so much....but this just looks....well....."holy shit awesome." Crush exhibiting his superb observational skills referring to this movie
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Akuma
Brigadier Commando
Brigadier Commando


Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 2590
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CrushFearSynth wrote:
Well, if they did one, it would be entirely canonical, and I do not see how WoW would affect that in any way.


Because WoW is the warcraft universe now, constantly progressing and changing. If a game was released with a story, nothing could happen that could actually affect or change the world without that showing up in WoW.

It's kind of like if you have a TV series, and a movie about that series is released. If the movie is in fact part of the actual present storyline, it has to be reflected in the TV series. Except in this case that could mean major world changes that no one actually sees any relation to without buying and playing the new Warcraft game, which I don't see them doing, but that's just my opinion.

And yeah Chowda, like I said, I totally see it happening after the end of WoW's progressing story, just not during.
_________________
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is the validity of them." -Abraham Lincoln
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
CrushFearSynth
Brigadier Survivor
Brigadier Survivor


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 9017
Location: Sterling, VA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It isn't constantly progressing and changing, all content and story is finite. Player actions matter very little, as the official quest storylines all end in a specific way, and as you say, all come to the same ultimate conclusion. They can release new expansions, but eventually they will stop doing so. And in any case, new material does not in any way shape or form affect the ability for them to create a new single player experience. You're right, if they did, it would probably show up in WoW if they decided to continue to support it in such a way. If not, all gameplay will be considered pre-WC4 storywise. Or they could decide that the WoW experience and any future RTS experience are separate. WoW is not and never will be the be all end all official Warcraft experience. It's simply what is popular now. It's like saying they could never make a WoW2. Everquest 2 was created, which has no gameplay connection to EQ1. They could even create WC4 in the vein of EQ2 - taking place hundreds of years after previous games. There are an overwhelming variety of ways that WC4 and future titles can keep on being rolled out. WoW does not in any way create an impediment.
_________________
"The cheese stands alone." - Madhatte
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Akuma
Brigadier Commando
Brigadier Commando


Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 2590
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
They could even create WC4 in the vein of EQ2 - taking place hundreds of years after previous games.


Sure, but that's not a present day continuation, was my point.

Quote:
It isn't constantly progressing and changing, all content and story is finite. Player actions matter very little, as the official quest storylines all end in a specific way, and as you say, all come to the same ultimate conclusion.


How is this different than a single player game? The end of the story is whatever it is, everyone when the game is created, that story is created, when the consumer plays it, they see the story progress and end. When a new patch or expansion for WoW comes out, the next installment to the story is created, and when people play through the raids and quests they see the story progress.

Quote:
WoW is not and never will be the be all end all official Warcraft experience.


I didn't say it was, but as it stands, it is the embodiment of the current state of the Warcraft universe. When talking about lore, people consider it the "now." Anything else in Warcraft lore happened "in the past."
_________________
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is the validity of them." -Abraham Lincoln
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
CrushFearSynth
Brigadier Survivor
Brigadier Survivor


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 9017
Location: Sterling, VA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How is this different than a single player game?

Never said it was. We're just debating the relevancy of a fourth RTS Warcraft game. Although I'd rather not have to pay monthly fees to experience an inviolable outcome. I'm not into online games all that much, but I bought Guild Wars on sheer principle, and to support them so they can continue to do that kind of thing in the hopes others learn from the strategy. I'll buy GW2 as well.

Quote:
people consider it the "now."

Well, since it is a fantasy universe, technically it should be considered "then." Huzzah!

I still disagree, WoW does not have exclusive title to the current state of the universe if Blizzard were to say it doesn't. And if they were to make a "current day" WC4, it would be more than possible to make it fit perfectly. They've done a smashing job of consistency and great storytelling, I trust this would be no great feat for them.
_________________
"The cheese stands alone." - Madhatte
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Akuma
Brigadier Commando
Brigadier Commando


Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 2590
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not that I don't think it'd be relevant, but yeah. This thread is called Diablo III!

Let's just agree that, WC4 would be badass, and should be done at some point, because the Warcraft universe is awesome.

Quote:
Well, since it is a fantasy universe, technically it should be considered "then." Huzzah!


i c wut u did thar
_________________
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is the validity of them." -Abraham Lincoln
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
CrushFearSynth
Brigadier Survivor
Brigadier Survivor


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 9017
Location: Sterling, VA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah, I forgot. D3. Yes.
_________________
"The cheese stands alone." - Madhatte
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Eisen
Brigadier
Brigadier


Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 1925

PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I just replayed D1 to get ready for D3. I chose the sorc. cause I like ranged classes and I used rogue last time I played about six or seven years ago. Holy... fucking... shit. I do not remember the game being that god damn difficult. I think the only reason I beat Diablo is because he didn't feel like walking through a couple fire walls. While he was waiting for them to go away, I dropped about 20 more right on top of him.

Now to get onto D2... again... Maybe...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Blue Elephant Brigade Forum Index -> Games (General) All times are GMT + 13 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Page 3 of 9

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group