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Financial collapse
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chowda
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buddy Lee wrote:
Reaganomics!

Worked in 1921
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chowda
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exzavier wrote:
<rant>

The republicans need to stop fucking around and work with Obama to right the economy. They are holding him back.

This week he announced good plans to reduce taxes and put people back to work.

Tax cuts for the middle class. 97% of Americans!
Tax cuts for small business.
Tax cuts for research in the US.
Tax cuts for improvement made to your business in 2011.
Improving transportation over the next 6 years and putting people to work for America.

All of these are good plans but the fucking republicans do not want Obama to succeed. Fucking republican / democrat bullshit. They need to work for America but the republicans are not. Stupid partisan bullshit. Fuck the two party system! Hardly any other developed nation has a two party system.

And if Rush Limbaugh or Glen Beck become President I will be moving to Canada.

</end>

Wow. Just wow.

Quote:
Tax cuts for the middle class. 97% of Americans!

Less than 50% of tax payers pay a net income tax. And the cuts he proposed are not cuts. It's preventing an increase.
Quote:
Tax cuts for small business.

94% of small businesses file as individuals (S Corps). The ones who hire employees tend to make more than $250k a year. Thus, small business is looking at a large tax increase in 2011.
Quote:
Tax cuts for research in the US.

Besides hooking up Obama's largest donors in the universities, who does this help? Has research stopped all of a sudden? Will slightly more help the overall economy in any real way?
Quote:
Tax cuts for improvement made to your business in 2011.

Do you have any clue how a business write-off works? Besides those looking to scam the bureaucracy, how will this have an impact?
Quote:
Improving transportation over the next 6 years and putting people to work for America.

It's at least a debatable point that FDR's infrastructure programs helped counter the ills of the Great Depression. However, no other nation meddled with the economy like we did, and we were the last significant nation out of it....by 6 years!
Quote:
All of these are good plans but the fucking republicans do not want Obama to succeed.

Hilarious. Obama doesn't need a single Republican to pass anything.
Quote:

Fucking republican / democrat bullshit. They need to work for America but the republicans are not. Stupid partisan bullshit.

Where were you on this when W was in power?
Quote:
Fuck the two party system! Hardly any other developed nation has a two party system.

The two party system has virtually disappeared in RI, MI, and to a lesser extent MA, CT, and NY. All of those states have promised way more than they could afford, have very high taxes and regulations, and suffer from brain drain (the number of college grads in state lowers considerably each year). You want that situation in DC? Or what developed country would you like to emulate? The one where the party who gets 20% rules or the one where party gets 99% because they threw their rivals in jail?
Quote:
And if Rush Limbaugh or Glen Beck become President I will be moving to Canada.

If you actually listened to them, you probably wouldn't have posted this pedestrian tripe.
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chowda
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trassin wrote:
I'm curious what actual evidence you have to back up your claim that President Obama's plan is good, Ex. Not pundint talking points but actual, fact based, peer reviewed economic theory?

Peer-reviewed by economists? Laughing

That Romer woman who just stepped down gave a speech where she stated she had no clue where the economy is going or how to get us out of this mess. She was the head of Obama's economic team, a distinguished economist, and had not held one real job in the business world.
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Trassin
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chowda wrote:
Trassin wrote:
I'm curious what actual evidence you have to back up your claim that President Obama's plan is good, Ex. Not pundint talking points but actual, fact based, peer reviewed economic theory?

Peer-reviewed by economists?


Yes, because economics is a science. In science they do this weird thing called creating theories based on understood facts and other theories considered sound. Then those theories are tested in a variety of ways, followed by review of the results, followed by publishing results, and then allowing their peers to review those.

I know you would prefer if it was all just based on a fixed, unchanging text, of which the author ship is unknown and there is no clear basis on facts or sound theory but that's just not how science works.

I would like to know if Ex actually has some factual, theoretically sound basis for making his claims or if he is making an assumption based on his personal observations and what he has heard from various media sources, which may or may not have any knowledge of economics themselves.

Quote:
That Romer woman who just stepped down gave a speech where she stated she had no clue where the economy is going or how to get us out of this mess.


And? It may very well be that there is no clear cut way for the government to get us out of this mess. As a matter of fact, since you are a republican, I would think your default position would be that the government has no way of getting us out of this mess and needs to get out of business's way?

Quote:
He was the head of Bush's economic team, a distinguished economist, and had not held one real job in the business world.
*Fixed*

The real question is, which one am I talking about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Lazear#Career
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Bernanke#Adult_life
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_S._Rosen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N._Gregory_Mankiw#Academic_career
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Hubbard_(economics)

Weird... it's almost like the people who usually hold that position are "distinguished economists" with no real business experience.
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Exzavier
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seeing as how conservatives control alot of the media I cannot find any articles at this time.
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Buddy Lee
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exzavier wrote:
Seeing as how conservatives control alot of the media I cannot find any articles at this time.


Conservatives is too specific. I think you mean liars. Yes, that should cover the whole spectrum from extremely far left to extremely far right.
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Trassin
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exzavier wrote:
Seeing as how conservatives control alot of the media I cannot find any articles at this time.


Ummm... I was thinking more research papers and economic studies that indicate President Obama's plan will have a positive effect on the economy.

Try searching for papers written by current and former members of his economic team. Then try to find reviews of those works to see what faults in the logic other economists have found.
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CrushFearSynth
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Seeing as how conservatives control alot of the media I cannot find any articles at this time.

Considering the vast majority of the media is liberal, I'm pretty sure you are either drunk or living in a cave.
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Buddy Lee
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CrushFearSynth wrote:
Quote:
Seeing as how conservatives control alot of the media I cannot find any articles at this time.

Considering the vast majority of the media is liberal, I'm pretty sure you are either drunk or living in a cave.

ok Sarah. How about you look out your front window and tell us how Russia looks? by the way, i don't know anything about economics and I'm disappoimted no one noticed the Robot chicken reference with Reaganomics!
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Course title every university should offer: "How to tell when someone else is full of shit" -Neil deGrasse Tyson in a Q&A session on reddit
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CrushFearSynth
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you don't think the media is left slanted, you must be blind and deaf.
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Mishlai
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

<-blind and deaf

In other news, I was speaking with my accountant today. She was telling me that congress is considering a bill that will change the way S-corporations handle self-employment tax, which will in a nutshell raise my taxes by something like 15%. Slightly less, but close enough.
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CrushFearSynth
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well see just how good you are at Starcraft 2 with that Braille keyboard! En garde!
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Mishlai
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's the braille mouse that really gives me difficulty.
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You are the result of 4 billion years of evolutionary success.

Fucking act like it.

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Jon Boy
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you work other "things" with brail. duh duh
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chowda
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mishlai wrote:
It's the braille mouse that really gives me difficulty.

HA!
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CrushFearSynth
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
you work other "things" with brail. duh duh

I always wondered how blind people masturbate.
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Buddy Lee
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CrushFearSynth wrote:
Quote:
you work other "things" with brail. duh duh

I always wondered how blind people masturbate.

They probably use their hands just like the rest of us.
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"What cheers me up? Um... I suppose mainly gloating over the misfortunes of other people. I guess that has to be it. Yeah, mainly crowing over the miseries of others. It doesn't always work, but it never completely fails. And then there's irony. There's irony, which is the gin in the campari, the cream in the coffee. Um... Sex can have diminishing returns, but it's amazing. Uh, no that's pretty much it, then it's a clear run to the grave." -Christopher Hitchens

Course title every university should offer: "How to tell when someone else is full of shit" -Neil deGrasse Tyson in a Q&A session on reddit
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CrushFearSynth
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They must have great imaginations. Not being able to watch porn seems horrifying for us intellectually lazy types.
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chowda
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trassin wrote:

Yes, because economics is a science.

No, it's a social science. Economic conditions are unique from physical science in that the results are made by human action and decision.

In regards to study, it also differs from science in that the results are closely monitored by many different entities and delivered in near real-time, creating the checks and balances the former needs peer review for.

Many take a scientific approach to markets with some short term success. By the time winning methods become institutionalized, the markets adjust and they get burned. I just finished read The Quants. This is a prime example of what I'm talking about.

Economic policy differs from economics in that it also deals with philosophy, politics, and interests of every scale. With a little effort, it's not too hard to formulate your own opinion.
Quote:
As a matter of fact, since you are a republican

1 of 24,000 registered in RI.
Quote:
I would think your default position would be that the government has no way of getting us out of this mess and needs to get out of business's way?

That may be the default position (within reason). But the markets, and large corporations in general, will respond very positively to a Republican House and a near deadlocked Senate. As long as they know Obama can't fuck with them for a few years, they will figure out a way to write down health care costs and put the easy but slow money they have in treasuries towards actual economic endeavors.

I think I know what you are getting at with Bush, but the main difference is he also surrounded himself with people who had real world business success.
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CrushFearSynth
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Statistics and probability is a mathematical science. Economics is statistics and probability. Therefore economics = mathematical science. Yes, I'm oversimplifying. Bite me. But you should really read John Forbes Nash Jr.'s Equilibrium thesis. Besides, human action and decision affects the outcomes of all sorts of physical intermologicalness. In any case, economic trends can be observed, predicted and experimented with to determine the validity of the predictions. Sounds like science to me. But all of this is irrelevant, I think.

Bush did surround himself with people much more knowledgeable, experienced and capable than Obama's team. And they still spent us into a recession(or at least the spending didn't help matters).
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