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Warhammer 40k and Fantasy general discussion
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CrushFearSynth
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AWESOME. Way to go, Graham! He's my other favorite, I freaking loved The Last Chancers.

Don't worry about some of the confusion caused in the novels with regards to fluff. GW itself has more contradictory fluff than anything.
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chowda
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watch this video with Abnett:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGrjY4-DQbM

He was actually shocked as to how much they were able to play with the fluff. Much like Starship Troopers (movie before book), I'm glad I'm getting to what I'm getting to first. WARNING: Kind of a major spoiler if you haven't read Legion yet.

And I have to revise my prediction. They will go on to be a part of the formation of the Ordo Malleus. Not ruling out the Grey Knights, but aren't they the Ordo Malleus's space marines? Oh, whatever. Basically the same prediction.
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CrushFearSynth
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the GK are the Ordo Malleus' personal chapter, and almost entirely unheard of, even by other chapters, outside of Malleus itself. They are used exclusively to fight on only the most daemon infested worlds, against the biggest and baddest daemons.

The great thing about GW fluff and third party licensed fluff is that it's all canon, no matter how contradictory. It's a very "do what you will" kind of setting, despite the company's strange and upsetting history of killing their fanbase through totalitarian limitation on use.
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chowda
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CrushFearSynth wrote:

The great thing about GW fluff and third party licensed fluff is that it's all canon, no matter how contradictory. It's a very "do what you will" kind of setting, despite the company's strange and upsetting history of killing their fanbase through totalitarian limitation on use.

So what's up with the II and XI legions? Are they omitted basically to let a GM's imagination run wild?
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CrushFearSynth
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unknown, all records lost right after the Horus Heresy(along with the identities of the last two Primarchs). There are also a number of Chapters that disappeared under unknown circumstances, all records lost(or purged) well after the Legions were disbanded. But yes, basically a bone thrown to players to create their own unofficial fiction.
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chowda
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It must have been much, much earlier. There's no mention of them thusfar in the novels. I just finished Fulgrim. Not bad, too much stuff at the beginning IMO. I started reading Legion. Alpha Legion seems like good fun.

I think that starting with the fourth book, their purpose isn't to progress the story as much as it is to tell the tale of the various legions. Fulgrim had 505 pages, only 45 of which progressed the heresy. That's fine and dandy, but they could be wrapping up the Battle Of Terra by now (A Thousand Sons is the 10th book I believe) and planning out the whole Emperor reincarnation thing that's supposed to be happening in the "current" 40k timeline.
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CrushFearSynth
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's possible the authors are too afraid to tackle every part of the era in stone detail. Which is strange, considering GW is giving them free reign to pretty much write whatever they want.

With the exception of the lost legions. You won't see anything about them in the HH novels. GW would naturally have forbidden any stories about them, because in their fluff, and the only fluff that is omnipresent and incontrovertible, those legions' existence was purged from all recorded history, a very serious thing. Even the traitor legions didn't have their imperial histories purged, and only a few second founding chapters suffered that fate. Point is, they want the issue to remain purposefully mysterious, because the very reason they exist is for players to create their own chapters for tabletop. So no books about them.

The Lost just came out, picked it up yesterday. The last omnibus for Gaunt's Ghosts. Been waiting two years for it.

The Emperor reincarnation thing was retconned. The sensei were killed off and the starchild is officially disavowed by GW.
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chowda
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just finished Legion. I still don't know shit about them. In fact, their original choice to side with Horus was the wise choice to them. I'm not sure if I really liked the book or feel let down.

Off to the Lexicanum...

EDIT: I went back and did some research. So Alpha Legion is CSM, but don't worship any chaos gods or corrupted by them? Weird.
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"Don't like the anime so much....but this just looks....well....."holy shit awesome." Crush exhibiting his superb observational skills referring to this movie
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CrushFearSynth
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, they are definitely corrupted, despite what they may say about themselves. Who believes they are corrupt when they believe they are right? But it is true that they do not pledge allegiance to any of the dark gods. They are big fans of possession and demonhood, though. It's the same with Black Legion - no fealty to Chaos, they just use it to do whatever they want.
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chowda
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CrushFearSynth wrote:
Oh, they are definitely corrupted, despite what they may say about themselves. Who believes they are corrupt when they believe they are right? But it is true that they do not pledge allegiance to any of the dark gods. They are big fans of possession and demonhood, though. It's the same with Black Legion - no fealty to Chaos, they just use it to do whatever they want.

True, at the time of the HH, using psykers was pretty much a no no and that was a major part of their devious tactics.

But I thought BL was much more involved with the Chaos gods, making deals with them for powers, etc... The whole everchosen thing is based around them.

But getting back to Alpha Legion, the eventual end of the Horus Heresy isn't one of the outcomes the Cabal showed them. If they had remained loyal, there's a chance they could have stopped Horus from the outset without the Emperor dieing. It was either Horus winning and then relizing what he did and turning on chaos, severly weakening them while destroying all of humanity, or the Emperor dieing after winning and chaos slowly creeping in and taking over the galaxy. I guess you can debate that is what happened with the golden throne, but it's opposite of what Alpha Legion chose to do.

So, you have to wonder if the cabal were actually agents of chaos. Then again, maybe they were indeed trying to stop Horus, but from the inside. Maybe there will be twists and turns when they finally get to the Battle of Terra (gonna be 3 books, btw). Because they do have to eventually explain why they remained in the Imperium after the HH.
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"Don't like the anime so much....but this just looks....well....."holy shit awesome." Crush exhibiting his superb observational skills referring to this movie
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CrushFearSynth
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
True, at the time of the HH, using psykers was pretty much a no no and that was a major part of their devious tactics.

It wasn't really a proscribed thing, but there was a sense of mistrust due to all the goings on during the Age of Strife. But the Warp was a good deal safer in the days of the HH than it is in the current timeline. The birth of Slaanesh cleared it out for a time, calming it.

BL makes deals with the Powers, but it does not follow or worship them. They are a means to an end. Alpha Legion very well could be working toward some noble goal, but once you are touched by Chaos, everything you do is corrupted by it as well. the thing about AL is that you aren't supposed to know what they're about. They are the masters of deception and misdirection, after all. Just more unbreachable fluff for the masses. It is curious that they have done a few things that ended up helping the Imperium occasionally, and have refrained from any heavy assaults and serious disruptions against them.
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chowda
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crush, have you read Battle For The Abyss yet? After the way I thought the last two I read dragged, this one's back to fast-paced action. Ben Counter may not have a lot of meat behind his writing, but cool shit seems to happen on every page. He also wrote the book that had the Battle Of Isstvan III.

This is my first glimpse of the Ultramarines, which a lot of people tell me suck. They seem basically like the Luna Wolves were: large, loyal, balanced, etc...
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CrushFearSynth
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't read most of the HH saga yet. Ben is decent, I enjoyed the Soul Eater saga, but I just don't like his simplistic approach to the Imperium. He sees it as evil, period. No room for interpretation or debate, no consideration of the absolute necessities that must be undertaken to survive as a species in a universe with actual daemons running around possessing people and wiping out planets(not to mention every other race gunning for every other race). Just plain way too black and white.

I still believe you are doing yourself an injustice by going through the largely lackluster(as I perceive it, inasmuch as I have read through) HH saga first. There are quite a number of much better novels in the Black Library...uh...library.

Yeah, the ultrasmurfs get a lot of flak basically because they have no real character, no interesting qualities. They are the cardboard cutout Knights in Shining Armour, loyal dogs to the Emperor that just go out and fight the good fight. I'm hoping the two omnibuses about them portray something a bit more fleshed out, considering I already bought them. The new movie is about Ultramarines, but Dan Abnett is writing the screenplay, so that should save it.
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chowda
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the reason I am reading them is I know how it eventually ends, but little else. I go back and read about the second founding for various offshoots only after reading the applicable book. That adds a lot of suspense that wouldn't be there, as well as no level of frustration from thinking they screwed something up, if I read the other stuff first.

I was going to skip over a few novels like the one on the Mechanium and some dumb-looking Terra chaos spawn assassin plot (seriously, whose idea as that?) and go straight to A Thousand Sons. But I'm definitely reading The First Heretic, now that IO realize the Word Bearers are quite cool.

But I may pick up the first Gaunt's Ghost omnibus soon and mix it in. School's been way too easy thusfar and I read in my car in 30-60 min increments 2-3 times a day and sometimes a few hours at night. So, I may get to the stuff you say is best sooner than later.
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chowda
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PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My brother and I have decided to buy the Horus Heresy board game:

Rule Book

Gameplay Video
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CrushFearSynth
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been holding off on that. I always get excited about neat looking new board games, and after buying them and sitting down to play, I suddenly remember I don't really like boardgames. Eventually I'll break down and get this too, I suppose.
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chowda
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, wanna do a bit of a 40k book swap at the expo? Spending money is dumb.
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CrushFearSynth
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hell no. I treasure my books, foo. Especially my 40k collection. I don't even let anyone borrow. Just doing my part to keep knowledge out of the hands of the populace, as the Emperor wills.
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chowda
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh well. I respect that. My dad had quite the impressive book shelf of nearly all scifi in our living room growing up. I wish I had snagged a few more before he sold them all.

Anyway, have you read anything by Aaron Demski-Bowden yet? He's a new Black Library author who's supposedly really, really good.

EDIT: I was just reading his blog. Go read what he says about his book Helsreach. He seems to take 40k very seriously, but isn't a fan of much of the library.

Aaron Demski-Bowden's blog
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CrushFearSynth
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have difficulty trusting the judgment of a man who thinks it is easy to write when you have a hot redhead to keep you company. Having said that, I'm intrigued. I will definitely pick up a couple of his works as soon as I finish The Lost.

As an aside, I recently picked up a copy of Blood Bowl Dark Elves Edition for the PC. As soon as my new TEC arrives, and if that fixes the problem, I'm installing that bitch.
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